uac

What changes can we expect from a functionality perspective over vista beta2 in UAC?
Thanks, Vipin

Not much from what I've seen in post Beta 2 builds. It's getting a little less intrusive, for instance, when UAC pops up the focus isn't directed at that only, you can go abouts and get to that later to run or install the certain program etc.
From a security standpoint UAC is a great security feature, however many others and myself agree a "Power User" account should be added for those who believe they're safe and understand what they're doing without question.
"Vipin" wrote:

What changes can we expect from a functionality perspective over vista beta2 in UAC?
Thanks, Vipin

Julsie wrote:

I have a program called DragonDictate which will not start in "elevated mode". So, after my computer has started I have to untick the UAC in the users account, restart my computer and start DragonDictate. My problem is that after a few hours DragonDictate ceases to function and when I check in the users account I see that the uac as once more "corrected

Did you install DragonDictate as Administrator?
-- @~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you! /( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.04) Linux 2.6.24.2 ^ ^ 20:03:01 up 13 days 10:03 0 users load average: 0.00 0.01 0.00 ? ? (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Uninstall DragonDictate. Delete any remnants you find... folders, files. Turn off UAC. Re-install DragonDictate. Leave UAC off. (If you turn it back on, DragonDictate will cease to function.) Some programs don't like it when UAC changes state after installation.
Now standby for all the UAC advocates, who somehow managed to survive the last 30 years without it, telling you how bad it is to turn this off and how much fun it is to answer that stupid prompt 10 times a day or more.

"Julsie" wrote in message

I have a program called DragonDictate which will not start in "elevated mode". So, after my computer has started I have to untick the UAC in the users account, restart my computer and start DragonDictate. My problem is that after a few hours DragonDictate ceases to function and when I check in the users account I see that the uac as once more "corrected itself" and it is ticked again which means I have to start procedure again if I want to use my dictation program. Is there no way at all whereby I can permanently cancel the uac. I am prepared to take the risks that may involve. To have to reboot my computer every few hours to get programmes to work is a real nuisance.
I would really appreciate some help for this

Julsie wrote:

I have a program called DragonDictate which will not start in "elevated mode". So, after my computer has started I have to untick the UAC in the users account, restart my computer and start DragonDictate. My problem is that after a few hours DragonDictate ceases to function and when I check in the users account I see that the uac as once more "corrected itself" and it is ticked again which means I have to start procedure again if I want to use my dictation program. Is there no way at all whereby I can permanently cancel the uac. I am prepared to take the risks that may involve. To have to reboot my computer every few hours to get programmes to work is a real nuisance.
I would really appreciate some help for this

What do DragonDictate's tech support people say?
Malke -- MS-MVP Elephant Boy Computers www.elephantboycomputers.com Don't Panic!

Thank you all for replying. My problem simply is that If i turn off UAC it finds a way of reinstating!!!1 I want to remove it permanently- UAC
"Malke" wrote:

Julsie wrote:
I have a program called DragonDictate which will not start in "elevated mode". So, after my computer has started I have to untick the UAC in the users account, restart my computer and start DragonDictate. My problem is that after a few hours DragonDictate ceases to function and when I check in the users account I see that the uac as once more "corrected itself" and it is ticked again which means I have to start procedure again if I want to use my dictation program. Is there no way at all whereby I can permanently cancel the uac. I am prepared to take the risks that may involve. To have to reboot my computer every few hours to get programmes to work is a real nuisance.
I would really appreciate some help for this
What do DragonDictate's tech support people say?
Malke -- MS-MVP Elephant Boy Computers www.elephantboycomputers.com Don't Panic!

Never see the prompt.
If you install programs the proper way, you never see it.
Mark wrote:

Uninstall DragonDictate. Delete any remnants you find... folders, files. Turn off UAC. Re-install DragonDictate. Leave UAC off. (If you turn it back on, DragonDictate will cease to function.) Some programs don't like it when UAC changes state after installation.
Now standby for all the UAC advocates, who somehow managed to survive the last 30 years without it, telling you how bad it is to turn this off and how much fun it is to answer that stupid prompt 10 times a day or more.

"Julsie" wrote in message I have a program called DragonDictate which will not start in "elevated mode". So, after my computer has started I have to untick the UAC in the users account, restart my computer and start DragonDictate. My problem is that after a few hours DragonDictate ceases to function and when I check in the users account I see that the uac as once more "corrected itself" and it is ticked again which means I have to start procedure again if I want to use my dictation program. Is there no way at all whereby I can permanently cancel the uac. I am prepared to take the risks that may involve. To have to reboot my computer every few hours to get programmes to work is a real nuisance.
I would really appreciate some help for this

Congratulations! The proper way? You mean you don't take a disk out of the box and use the standard method of installation... you know: autorun.inf, setup.exe, install.exe, etc.? (I noticed you didn't post this miracle cure so it could be tested by those that install, test and remove ten or more programs a day.)
"Susan Bradley" wrote in message

Never see the prompt.
If you install programs the proper way, you never see it.
Mark wrote: Uninstall DragonDictate. Delete any remnants you find... folders, files. Turn off UAC. Re-install DragonDictate. Leave UAC off. (If you turn it back on, DragonDictate will cease to function.) Some programs don't like it when UAC changes state after installation.
Now standby for all the UAC advocates, who somehow managed to survive the last 30 years without it, telling you how bad it is to turn this off and how much fun it is to answer that stupid prompt 10 times a day or more.

"Julsie" wrote in message I have a program called DragonDictate which will not start in "elevated mode". So, after my computer has started I have to untick the UAC in the users account, restart my computer and start DragonDictate. My problem is that after a few hours DragonDictate ceases to function and when I check in the users account I see that the uac as once more "corrected itself" and it is ticked again which means I have to start procedure again if I want to use my dictation program. Is there no way at all whereby I can permanently cancel the uac. I am prepared to take the risks that may involve. To have to reboot my computer every few hours to get programmes to work is a real nuisance.
I would really appreciate some help for this

The miracle cure is to write apps and installation programs that don't require administrator privileges. Unfortunately hardly anybody can be bothered to do it because they've got used to NOT doing it (over the past 30 yrs). Should games really require administrator privilege to install and run? -- Phil Wilson [MVP Windows Installer]
"Mark" wrote in message

Congratulations! The proper way? You mean you don't take a disk out of the box and use the standard method of installation... you know: autorun.inf, setup.exe, install.exe, etc.? (I noticed you didn't post this miracle cure so it could be tested by those that install, test and remove ten or more programs a day.)
"Susan Bradley" wrote in message Never see the prompt.
If you install programs the proper way, you never see it.
Mark wrote: Uninstall DragonDictate. Delete any remnants you find... folders, files. Turn off UAC. Re-install DragonDictate. Leave UAC off. (If you turn it back on, DragonDictate will cease to function.) Some programs don't like it when UAC changes state after installation.
Now standby for all the UAC advocates, who somehow managed to survive the last 30 years without it, telling you how bad it is to turn this off and how much fun it is to answer that stupid prompt 10 times a day or more.

"Julsie" wrote in message I have a program called DragonDictate which will not start in "elevated mode". So, after my computer has started I have to untick the UAC in the users account, restart my computer and start DragonDictate. My problem is that after a few hours DragonDictate ceases to function and when I check in the users account I see that the uac as once more "corrected itself" and it is ticked again which means I have to start procedure again if I want to use my dictation program. Is there no way at all whereby I can permanently cancel the uac. I am prepared to take the risks that may involve. To have to reboot my computer every few hours to get programmes to work is a real nuisance.
I would really appreciate some help for this

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 05:27:01 -0800, Julsie wrote:

Thank you all for replying. My problem simply is that If i turn off UAC it finds a way of reinstating!!!1

Your real problem is that you refuse to listen to good advice. Start educate yourself! Re-read the responses from Malke, Susan and M-wai and act accordingly.

I want to remove it permanently- UAC

Very bad idea!
Do not work in elevated level; Day-to-day work should be performed while the User Account Control (UAC) is enabled. Turning off UAC reduces the security of your computer and may expose you to increased risk from malicious software. http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVista/en/library/0d75f774-8514-4c9e-ac08-4c21f5c6c2d91033.mspx?mfr=true
Familiarize yourself with "Services Hardening in Windows Vista". http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/01/SecurityWatch/
UAC is important to have running in the first place, and it's doubly true with the average consumer PC, which commonly has a non-technical user responsible for maintaining it. http://itsvista.com/2008/02/12-of-consumers-disable-vistas-uac-down-from-16/
Peez of Pith :-)

I disagree. If you are running AV, AS (2 or more) and a firewall AND you have a working brain you don't need UAC.
"Kayman" wrote in message

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 05:27:01 -0800, Julsie wrote:
Thank you all for replying. My problem simply is that If i turn off UAC it finds a way of reinstating!!!1
Your real problem is that you refuse to listen to good advice. Start educate yourself! Re-read the responses from Malke, Susan and M-wai and act accordingly.
I want to remove it permanently- UAC
Very bad idea!
Do not work in elevated level; Day-to-day work should be performed while the User Account Control (UAC) is enabled. Turning off UAC reduces the security of your computer and may expose you to increased risk from malicious software. http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVista/en/library/0d75f774-8514-4c9e-ac08-4c21f5c6c2d91033.mspx?mfr=true
Familiarize yourself with "Services Hardening in Windows Vista". http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/01/SecurityWatch/
UAC is important to have running in the first place, and it's doubly true with the average consumer PC, which commonly has a non-technical user responsible for maintaining it. http://itsvista.com/2008/02/12-of-consumers-disable-vistas-uac-down-from-16/
Peez of Pith :-)

No I blog about it. :-)
Stick the cdrom in, Browse to the cdrom, right mouse click on the setup file Run as administrator
Install
If the program is an older crappy one you use Luabuglight tool or Process Explorer to determine the needed registry keys/permissions to be tweaked.
http://blogs.msdn.com/aaron_margosis/archive/2006/08/07/LuaBuglight.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx
You can change the 'run as XP sp2' or 'run as administrator' in the compatability tab, but I prefer the Luabuglight method as it's the same thing I need to identify to get these same programs to run without administrator rights on XP.
It's no miracle cure, it's a tested process.
Is it too much for the consumer crowd? Absolutely which is why in her case if she can't get an update from the Vendor, which is what Malke was saying she would be better off adjusting the UAC to silently elevate. But turning it off turns off protected mode for IE.
In my preference it would be
Adjusting it to silently elevate -- http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/02/08/keep-your-bikini-on.aspx Hacking the permissions -- http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/02/20/installing-quickbook-2006-on-vista.aspx http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/01/26/dusting-off-command-line-for-vista.aspx
Ain't rocket science, but I'd argue it's better than "turn it off and wait for the UAC advocates to post".
Mark wrote:

Congratulations! The proper way? You mean you don't take a disk out of the box and use the standard method of installation... you know: autorun.inf, setup.exe, install.exe, etc.? (I noticed you didn't post this miracle cure so it could be tested by those that install, test and remove ten or more programs a day.)
"Susan Bradley" wrote in message Never see the prompt.
If you install programs the proper way, you never see it.
Mark wrote: Uninstall DragonDictate. Delete any remnants you find... folders, files. Turn off UAC. Re-install DragonDictate. Leave UAC off. (If you turn it back on, DragonDictate will cease to function.) Some programs don't like it when UAC changes state after installation.
Now standby for all the UAC advocates, who somehow managed to survive the last 30 years without it, telling you how bad it is to turn this off and how much fun it is to answer that stupid prompt 10 times a day or more.

"Julsie" wrote in message I have a program called DragonDictate which will not start in "elevated mode". So, after my computer has started I have to untick the UAC in the users account, restart my computer and start DragonDictate. My problem is that after a few hours DragonDictate ceases to function and when I check in the users account I see that the uac as once more "corrected itself" and it is ticked again which means I have to start procedure again if I want to use my dictation program. Is there no way at all whereby I can permanently cancel the uac. I am prepared to take the risks that may involve. To have to reboot my computer every few hours to get programmes to work is a real nuisance.
I would really appreciate some help for this

Why does one need 2 or more AS?
UAC helps me and my working brain.
It also forced vendors to start coding more appropriately.
I don't need to be an administrator when I'm merely running software.
Bob wrote:

I disagree. If you are running AV, AS (2 or more) and a firewall AND you have a working brain you don't need UAC.
"Kayman" wrote in message On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 05:27:01 -0800, Julsie wrote:
Thank you all for replying. My problem simply is that If i turn off UAC it finds a way of reinstating!!!1
Your real problem is that you refuse to listen to good advice. Start educate yourself! Re-read the responses from Malke, Susan and M-wai and act accordingly.
I want to remove it permanently- UAC
Very bad idea!
Do not work in elevated level; Day-to-day work should be performed while the User Account Control (UAC) is enabled. Turning off UAC reduces the security of your computer and may expose you to increased risk from malicious software. http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVista/en/library/0d75f774-8514-4c9e-ac08-4c21f5c6c2d91033.mspx?mfr=true
Familiarize yourself with "Services Hardening in Windows Vista". http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/01/SecurityWatch/
UAC is important to have running in the first place, and it's doubly true with the average consumer PC, which commonly has a non-technical user responsible for maintaining it. http://itsvista.com/2008/02/12-of-consumers-disable-vistas-uac-down-from-16/
Peez of Pith :-)

Thanks for the clarification, but if I had to do that for every program I load, test and uninstall I'd have given up on Vista a long time ago. Turning off the prompts with the registry entry simply elevates most programs (turns UAC off), but it is not supposed to elevate some, such as true admin commands (like policy changes, cmd, etc.) Additionally, it is not silent. It nags you every time it wakes up to tell you that UAC is turned off with a red shield and a tool tip balloon. Lastly, can't really test these programs for compatibility, installation and uninstall if I turn it off.
The only benefit I see is that it leaves IE Protected mode on while turning UAC off.
I don't have a real problem with UAC. I just hate to have to interface with a program that's dumber than me. Two viruses in 30 years is a good record for common sense and "running naked" without a loss in computer performance to all the protection schemes. Although I do use a firewall now... the default Windows version. Why Windows version? It's silent. (Make backups with an external hard drive and you can restore in 20 minutes. Much less troublesome than UAC.)
"Susan Bradley" wrote in message

No I blog about it. :-)
Stick the cdrom in, Browse to the cdrom, right mouse click on the setup file Run as administrator
Install
If the program is an older crappy one you use Luabuglight tool or Process Explorer to determine the needed registry keys/permissions to be tweaked.
http://blogs.msdn.com/aaron_margosis/archive/2006/08/07/LuaBuglight.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx
You can change the 'run as XP sp2' or 'run as administrator' in the compatability tab, but I prefer the Luabuglight method as it's the same thing I need to identify to get these same programs to run without administrator rights on XP.
It's no miracle cure, it's a tested process.
Is it too much for the consumer crowd? Absolutely which is why in her case if she can't get an update from the Vendor, which is what Malke was saying she would be better off adjusting the UAC to silently elevate. But turning it off turns off protected mode for IE.
In my preference it would be
Adjusting it to silently elevate -- http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/02/08/keep-your-bikini-on.aspx Hacking the permissions -- http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/02/20/installing-quickbook-2006-on-vista.aspx http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/01/26/dusting-off-command-line-for-vista.aspx
Ain't rocket science, but I'd argue it's better than "turn it off and wait for the UAC advocates to post".
Mark wrote: Congratulations! The proper way? You mean you don't take a disk out of the box and use the standard method of installation... you know: autorun.inf, setup.exe, install.exe, etc.? (I noticed you didn't post this miracle cure so it could be tested by those that install, test and remove ten or more programs a day.)
"Susan Bradley" wrote in message Never see the prompt.
If you install programs the proper way, you never see it.
Mark wrote: Uninstall DragonDictate. Delete any remnants you find... folders, files. Turn off UAC. Re-install DragonDictate. Leave UAC off. (If you turn it back on, DragonDictate will cease to function.) Some programs don't like it when UAC changes state after installation.
Now standby for all the UAC advocates, who somehow managed to survive the last 30 years without it, telling you how bad it is to turn this off and how much fun it is to answer that stupid prompt 10 times a day or more.

"Julsie" wrote in message I have a program called DragonDictate which will not start in "elevated mode". So, after my computer has started I have to untick the UAC in the users account, restart my computer and start DragonDictate. My problem is that after a few hours DragonDictate ceases to function and when I check in the users account I see that the uac as once more "corrected itself" and it is ticked again which means I have to start procedure again if I want to use my dictation program. Is there no way at all whereby I can permanently cancel the uac. I am prepared to take the risks that may involve. To have to reboot my computer every few hours to get programmes to work is a real nuisance.
I would really appreciate some help for this

The silently elevate in the security policy does not. UAC is still on, it just silently elevates.
Again, it's not turning it off, it's auto elevating it.
Mark wrote:

Thanks for the clarification, but if I had to do that for every program I load, test and uninstall I'd have given up on Vista a long time ago. Turning off the prompts with the registry entry simply elevates most programs (turns UAC off), but it is not supposed to elevate some, such as true admin commands (like policy changes, cmd, etc.) Additionally, it is not silent. It nags you every time it wakes up to tell you that UAC is turned off with a red shield and a tool tip balloon. Lastly, can't really test these programs for compatibility, installation and uninstall if I turn it off.
The only benefit I see is that it leaves IE Protected mode on while turning UAC off.
I don't have a real problem with UAC. I just hate to have to interface with a program that's dumber than me. Two viruses in 30 years is a good record for common sense and "running naked" without a loss in computer performance to all the protection schemes. Although I do use a firewall now... the default Windows version. Why Windows version? It's silent. (Make backups with an external hard drive and you can restore in 20 minutes. Much less troublesome than UAC.)
"Susan Bradley" wrote in message No I blog about it. :-)
Stick the cdrom in, Browse to the cdrom, right mouse click on the setup file Run as administrator
Install
If the program is an older crappy one you use Luabuglight tool or Process Explorer to determine the needed registry keys/permissions to be tweaked.
http://blogs.msdn.com/aaron_margosis/archive/2006/08/07/LuaBuglight.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx
You can change the 'run as XP sp2' or 'run as administrator' in the compatability tab, but I prefer the Luabuglight method as it's the same thing I need to identify to get these same programs to run without administrator rights on XP.
It's no miracle cure, it's a tested process.
Is it too much for the consumer crowd? Absolutely which is why in her case if she can't get an update from the Vendor, which is what Malke was saying she would be better off adjusting the UAC to silently elevate. But turning it off turns off protected mode for IE.
In my preference it would be
Adjusting it to silently elevate -- http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/02/08/keep-your-bikini-on.aspx
Hacking the permissions -- http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/02/20/installing-quickbook-2006-on-vista.aspx
http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/01/26/dusting-off-command-line-for-vista.aspx
Ain't rocket science, but I'd argue it's better than "turn it off and wait for the UAC advocates to post".
Mark wrote: Congratulations! The proper way? You mean you don't take a disk out of the box and use the standard method of installation... you know: autorun.inf, setup.exe, install.exe, etc.? (I noticed you didn't post this miracle cure so it could be tested by those that install, test and remove ten or more programs a day.)
"Susan Bradley" wrote in message Never see the prompt.
If you install programs the proper way, you never see it.
Mark wrote: Uninstall DragonDictate. Delete any remnants you find... folders, files. Turn off UAC. Re-install DragonDictate. Leave UAC off. (If you turn it back on, DragonDictate will cease to function.) Some programs don't like it when UAC changes state after installation.
Now standby for all the UAC advocates, who somehow managed to survive the last 30 years without it, telling you how bad it is to turn this off and how much fun it is to answer that stupid prompt 10 times a day or more.

"Julsie" wrote in message I have a program called DragonDictate which will not start in "elevated mode". So, after my computer has started I have to untick the UAC in the users account, restart my computer and start DragonDictate. My problem is that after a few hours DragonDictate ceases to function and when I check in the users account I see that the uac as once more "corrected itself" and it is ticked again which means I have to start procedure again if I want to use my dictation program. Is there no way at all whereby I can permanently cancel the uac. I am prepared to take the risks that may involve. To have to reboot my computer every few hours to get programmes to work is a real nuisance.
I would really appreciate some help for this

"Bob" wrote in message

I disagree. If you are running AV, AS (2 or more) and a firewall AND you have a working brain you don't need UAC.

That is utter nonsense. Why should applications have full access to the box?
-- Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/ http://www.windowsresource.net/
*Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*

http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVista/en/library/00d04415-2b2f-422c-b70e-b18ff918c2811033.mspx#BKMK_AdminUAC
For the sake of having the facts straight, I just attempted both methods of setting UAC to No Prompts: Registry: [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System] Change the value of ConsentPromptBehaviorAdmin from "2" to "0". This immediately results in the red shield and a balloon stating UAC has been turned off. Check security center: UAC is turned off. Attempt to install a cheap non-vista game: Program installs without a prompt. Allow computer to sleep: Nag upon return to life. Reboot: Nag upon return to life. Disabling nag prevents any security center issue from notifying you it is in trouble.
Using secpol.msc to set UAC to No Prompts gave exact same results and amazingly set the same registry value to "0."
Neither method produced a prompt when attempting to reset security settings if set for No Prompt. IE remained in Protected Mode for both cases.
(I did not pursue all installed programs to seek those that were now confused and not functioning correctly as a result of switching UAC modes, but if UAC is still running, there should be no problems. It is actually disabling UAC that causes problems with these.)

"Susan Bradley" wrote in message

The silently elevate in the security policy does not. UAC is still on, it just silently elevates.
Again, it's not turning it off, it's auto elevating it.
Mark wrote: Thanks for the clarification, but if I had to do that for every program I load, test and uninstall I'd have given up on Vista a long time ago. Turning off the prompts with the registry entry simply elevates most programs (turns UAC off), but it is not supposed to elevate some, such as true admin commands (like policy changes, cmd, etc.) Additionally, it is not silent. It nags you every time it wakes up to tell you that UAC is turned off with a red shield and a tool tip balloon. Lastly, can't really test these programs for compatibility, installation and uninstall if I turn it off.
The only benefit I see is that it leaves IE Protected mode on while turning UAC off.
I don't have a real problem with UAC. I just hate to have to interface with a program that's dumber than me. Two viruses in 30 years is a good record for common sense and "running naked" without a loss in computer performance to all the protection schemes. Although I do use a firewall now... the default Windows version. Why Windows version? It's silent. (Make backups with an external hard drive and you can restore in 20 minutes. Much less troublesome than UAC.)
"Susan Bradley" wrote in message No I blog about it. :-)
Stick the cdrom in, Browse to the cdrom, right mouse click on the setup file Run as administrator
Install
If the program is an older crappy one you use Luabuglight tool or Process Explorer to determine the needed registry keys/permissions to be tweaked.
http://blogs.msdn.com/aaron_margosis/archive/2006/08/07/LuaBuglight.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx
You can change the 'run as XP sp2' or 'run as administrator' in the compatability tab, but I prefer the Luabuglight method as it's the same thing I need to identify to get these same programs to run without administrator rights on XP.
It's no miracle cure, it's a tested process.
Is it too much for the consumer crowd? Absolutely which is why in her case if she can't get an update from the Vendor, which is what Malke was saying she would be better off adjusting the UAC to silently elevate. But turning it off turns off protected mode for IE.
In my preference it would be
Adjusting it to silently elevate -- http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/02/08/keep-your-bikini-on.aspx Hacking the permissions -- http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/02/20/installing-quickbook-2006-on-vista.aspx http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/01/26/dusting-off-command-line-for-vista.aspx
Ain't rocket science, but I'd argue it's better than "turn it off and wait for the UAC advocates to post".
Mark wrote: Congratulations! The proper way? You mean you don't take a disk out of the box and use the standard method of installation... you know: autorun.inf, setup.exe, install.exe, etc.? (I noticed you didn't post this miracle cure so it could be tested by those that install, test and remove ten or more programs a day.)
"Susan Bradley" wrote in message Never see the prompt.
If you install programs the proper way, you never see it.
Mark wrote: Uninstall DragonDictate. Delete any remnants you find... folders, files. Turn off UAC. Re-install DragonDictate. Leave UAC off. (If you turn it back on, DragonDictate will cease to function.) Some programs don't like it when UAC changes state after installation.
Now standby for all the UAC advocates, who somehow managed to survive the last 30 years without it, telling you how bad it is to turn this off and how much fun it is to answer that stupid prompt 10 times a day or more.

"Julsie" wrote in message I have a program called DragonDictate which will not start in "elevated mode". So, after my computer has started I have to untick the UAC in the users account, restart my computer and start DragonDictate. My problem is that after a few hours DragonDictate ceases to function and when I check in the users account I see that the uac as once more "corrected itself" and it is ticked again which means I have to start procedure again if I want to use my dictation program. Is there no way at all whereby I can permanently cancel the uac. I am prepared to take the risks that may involve. To have to reboot my computer every few hours to get programmes to work is a real nuisance.
I would really appreciate some help for this

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:35:46 -0500, Bob wrote:

I disagree. If you are running AV, AS (2 or more) and a firewall AND you have a working brain you don't need UAC.
Your 'working brain' appears to be confused; UAC is much more then

running/relying on anti-whatever things...do some reading and try to comprehend, Google is your friend ;-) -- Security is a process not a product. (Bruce Schneier)

ALL applications, especially malware should have full access to the box, if they don't, how will we get people to switch to Apple or Linux???? How will spammers get the message out? How will criminals get your bank logins? Curse you UAC!!!!
-Lou
"Paul Smith" wrote in message

"Bob" wrote in message I disagree. If you are running AV, AS (2 or more) and a firewall AND you have a working brain you don't need UAC.
That is utter nonsense. Why should applications have full access to the box?
-- Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/ http://www.windowsresource.net/
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"Susan Bradley" wrote in message

Why does one need 2 or more AS?

There isn't any single AS program that catches all spyware.

"Paul Smith" wrote in message

"Bob" wrote in message I disagree. If you are running AV, AS (2 or more) and a firewall AND you have a working brain you don't need UAC.
That is utter nonsense. Why should applications have full access to the box?
Because it's MY box and I want to decide what has access to it. I don't want

or need "big brother's" help. XP didn't need UAC and neither does Vista.

Thank you, but I've done my reading.
"Kayman" wrote in message

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:35:46 -0500, Bob wrote:
I disagree. If you are running AV, AS (2 or more) and a firewall AND you have a working brain you don't need UAC.
Your 'working brain' appears to be confused; UAC is much more then running/relying on anti-whatever things...do some reading and try to comprehend, Google is your friend ;-) -- Security is a process not a product. (Bruce Schneier)

In my use/testing of it, it has not turned on the red shield?
Mark wrote:

http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVista/en/library/00d04415-2b2f-422c-b70e-b18ff918c2811033.mspx#BKMK_AdminUAC
For the sake of having the facts straight, I just attempted both methods of setting UAC to No Prompts: Registry: [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System]
Change the value of ConsentPromptBehaviorAdmin from "2" to "0". This immediately results in the red shield and a balloon stating UAC has been turned off. Check security center: UAC is turned off. Attempt to install a cheap non-vista game: Program installs without a prompt. Allow computer to sleep: Nag upon return to life. Reboot: Nag upon return to life. Disabling nag prevents any security center issue from notifying you it is in trouble.
Using secpol.msc to set UAC to No Prompts gave exact same results and amazingly set the same registry value to "0."
Neither method produced a prompt when attempting to reset security settings if set for No Prompt. IE remained in Protected Mode for both cases.
(I did not pursue all installed programs to seek those that were now confused and not functioning correctly as a result of switching UAC modes, but if UAC is still running, there should be no problems. It is actually disabling UAC that causes problems with these.)

"Susan Bradley" wrote in message The silently elevate in the security policy does not. UAC is still on, it just silently elevates.
Again, it's not turning it off, it's auto elevating it.
Mark wrote: Thanks for the clarification, but if I had to do that for every program I load, test and uninstall I'd have given up on Vista a long time ago. Turning off the prompts with the registry entry simply elevates most programs (turns UAC off), but it is not supposed to elevate some, such as true admin commands (like policy changes, cmd, etc.) Additionally, it is not silent. It nags you every time it wakes up to tell you that UAC is turned off with a red shield and a tool tip balloon. Lastly, can't really test these programs for compatibility, installation and uninstall if I turn it off.
The only benefit I see is that it leaves IE Protected mode on while turning UAC off.
I don't have a real problem with UAC. I just hate to have to interface with a program that's dumber than me. Two viruses in 30 years is a good record for common sense and "running naked" without a loss in computer performance to all the protection schemes. Although I do use a firewall now... the default Windows version. Why Windows version? It's silent. (Make backups with an external hard drive and you can restore in 20 minutes. Much less troublesome than UAC.)
"Susan Bradley" wrote in message No I blog about it. :-)
Stick the cdrom in, Browse to the cdrom, right mouse click on the setup file Run as administrator
Install
If the program is an older crappy one you use Luabuglight tool or Process Explorer to determine the needed registry keys/permissions to be tweaked.
http://blogs.msdn.com/aaron_margosis/archive/2006/08/07/LuaBuglight.aspx
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx
You can change the 'run as XP sp2' or 'run as administrator' in the compatability tab, but I prefer the Luabuglight method as it's the same thing I need to identify to get these same programs to run without administrator rights on XP.
It's no miracle cure, it's a tested process.
Is it too much for the consumer crowd? Absolutely which is why in her case if she can't get an update from the Vendor, which is what Malke was saying she would be better off adjusting the UAC to silently elevate. But turning it off turns off protected mode for IE.
In my preference it would be
Adjusting it to silently elevate -- http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/02/08/keep-your-bikini-on.aspx
Hacking the permissions -- http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/02/20/installing-quickbook-2006-on-vista.aspx
http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2008/01/26/dusting-off-command-line-for-vista.aspx
Ain't rocket science, but I'd argue it's better than "turn it off and wait for the UAC advocates to post".
Mark wrote: Congratulations! The proper way? You mean you don't take a disk out of the box and use the standard method of installation... you know: autorun.inf, setup.exe, install.exe, etc.? (I noticed you didn't post this miracle cure so it could be tested by those that install, test and remove ten or more programs a day.)
"Susan Bradley" wrote in message Never see the prompt.
If you install programs the proper way, you never see it.
Mark wrote: Uninstall DragonDictate. Delete any remnants you find... folders, files. Turn off UAC. Re-install DragonDictate. Leave UAC off. (If you turn it back on, DragonDictate will cease to function.) Some programs don't like it when UAC changes state after installation.
Now standby for all the UAC advocates, who somehow managed to survive the last 30 years without it, telling you how bad it is to turn this off and how much fun it is to answer that stupid prompt 10 times a day or more.

"Julsie" wrote in message I have a program called DragonDictate which will not start in "elevated mode". So, after my computer has started I have to untick the UAC in the users account, restart my computer and start DragonDictate. My problem is that after a few hours DragonDictate ceases to function and when I check in the users account I see that the uac as once more "corrected itself" and it is ticked again which means I have to start procedure again if I want to use my dictation program. Is there no way at all whereby I can permanently cancel the uac. I am prepared to take the risks that may involve. To have to reboot my computer every few hours to get programmes to work is a real nuisance.
I would really appreciate some help for this

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:50:55 -0500, Bob wrote:

"Susan Bradley" wrote in message Why does one need 2 or more AS?
There isn't any single AS program that catches all spyware.

So you actually have more than one(1) real-time A-S running? ....the mind boggles.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:56:53 -0500, Bob wrote:

Thank you, but I've done my reading.
Maybe, but you didn't understand the content.

"Kayman" wrote in message

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:50:55 -0500, Bob wrote:
"Susan Bradley" wrote in message Why does one need 2 or more AS?
There isn't any single AS program that catches all spyware.
So you actually have more than one(1) real-time A-S running? ....the mind boggles.

No, I only run WD in real-time and periodically do a scan with others.

"Kayman" wrote in message

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:56:53 -0500, Bob wrote:
Thank you, but I've done my reading.
Maybe, but you didn't understand the content.

Thank you, my reading comprehension is more than adequate.

"Bob" wrote in message

Because it's MY box and I want to decide what has access to it. I don't want or need "big brother's" help. XP didn't need UAC and neither does Vista.

So what if for example, one of your games that you're running with full rights has a security vulnerability? That gets exploited and as a result the entire box is compromised.
Or the game runs as standard user, and the amount of damage the vulnerability can cause is much reduced - and at this moment it time, whatever code was being used to make the exploit simply breaks because it was expecting admin rights.
Common sense really.
-- Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/ http://www.windowsresource.net/
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I don't have any games installed. In any event, I'm comfortable using AV, AS and firewall.
It's your choice and mine whether or not we want to deal with UAC prompts. My choice is to disable the prompts.
"Paul Smith" wrote in message

"Bob" wrote in message
Because it's MY box and I want to decide what has access to it. I don't want or need "big brother's" help. XP didn't need UAC and neither does Vista.
So what if for example, one of your games that you're running with full rights has a security vulnerability? That gets exploited and as a result the entire box is compromised.
Or the game runs as standard user, and the amount of damage the vulnerability can cause is much reduced - and at this moment it time, whatever code was being used to make the exploit simply breaks because it was expecting admin rights.
Common sense really.
-- Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/ http://www.windowsresource.net/
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"Bob" wrote in message

I don't have any games installed. In any event, I'm comfortable using AV, AS and firewall.

Fine, miss the point entirely.
Let me rephrase, your web browser has a vulnerability, your calculator has a vulnerability, your e-mail client has a vulnerability or any other application on the system *for example*. As you're running those as an administrator, your AV your firewall you name it can be turned off, as the malicious code is running as an administrator.
If those applications were running as standard user, they don't have the authority to turn the services off, nor go and make any system-wide changes.
-- Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/ http://www.windowsresource.net/
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You're living in paranoia. What if a meteor strikes? What if...
Yes, there is bad stuff out there. A little common sense goes a long way. Make a backup.
"Paul Smith" wrote in message

"Bob" wrote in message
Because it's MY box and I want to decide what has access to it. I don't want or need "big brother's" help. XP didn't need UAC and neither does Vista.
So what if for example, one of your games that you're running with full rights has a security vulnerability? That gets exploited and as a result the entire box is compromised.
Or the game runs as standard user, and the amount of damage the vulnerability can cause is much reduced - and at this moment it time, whatever code was being used to make the exploit simply breaks because it was expecting admin rights.
Common sense really.
-- Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/ http://www.windowsresource.net/
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"Microsoft and paranoid types will tell you that disabling UAC is a bad idea, but I don't buy the argument. Serious security threats install themselves under the radar and behind the scenes. It shouldn't take user intervention to stop them, and in fact, I've never seen or heard of UAC actually stopping spyware or a virus from being installed, and many sources note that UAC can't stop everything. Turning off UAC will theoretically reduce the security level of your computer, but if you're running antivirus and anti-spyware software like a good PC citizen, the only thing you'll notice is blissful freedom from those annoying messages."
Christopher Null
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Null

"Paul Smith" wrote in message

"Bob" wrote in message I don't have any games installed. In any event, I'm comfortable using AV, AS and firewall.
Fine, miss the point entirely.
Let me rephrase, your web browser has a vulnerability, your calculator has a vulnerability, your e-mail client has a vulnerability or any other application on the system *for example*. As you're running those as an administrator, your AV your firewall you name it can be turned off, as the malicious code is running as an administrator.
If those applications were running as standard user, they don't have the authority to turn the services off, nor go and make any system-wide changes.
-- Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/ http://www.windowsresource.net/
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"Mark" wrote in message

You're living in paranoia. What if a meteor strikes? What if...

You mean a meteorite, a meteor doesn't strike anything apart from an atmosphere.

Yes, there is bad stuff out there. A little common sense goes a long way.

When you're dealing with a user base measured in the hundreds of millions the "bad stuff" is happening to people all the time. Not caring, or dismissing it as paranoia because statistically it is unlikely to happen to any specific individual is nothing less than self-centered.

Make a backup.

What good does that do? Even if you notice the intrusion straight away it can take a couple of hours to re-image a machine. The big money nowadays comes from maintaining botnets, the way you maintain a botnet is by hiding the fact the system is compromised for as long as possible, I know people who have had their machines compromised for months without them knowing about it - contributing to spam and exploiting more machines.
The biggest selling point of NT is the standard user, and its about time that it is used properly.
-- Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/ http://www.windowsresource.net/
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Guess I should go buy a lottery ticket.
It's not protection if I must decide every time that the prompt is expected. Would you buy an antivirus program that asked you every time it scanned a file if it was a virus?
I understand the need in a work space where people expect the company to protect them from being idiots. And the use of credentials substantially improves the idea of UAC. But, I know my home computer, what I use it for and find no need for this garbage.
Self-centered would be those that force this method upon us and deem it good for all. Yes, it can be turned off, but only if you're willing to turn off the security center prompts, IE protected mode and be willing to find that fewer programs work because off isn't really off, but a compatibility mode.
Sorry, I just don't buy that it's protection when the number one response is to simply learn to ignore it and hit Continue.
"Paul Smith" wrote in message

"Mark" wrote in message
You're living in paranoia. What if a meteor strikes? What if...
You mean a meteorite, a meteor doesn't strike anything apart from an atmosphere.
Yes, there is bad stuff out there. A little common sense goes a long way.
When you're dealing with a user base measured in the hundreds of millions the "bad stuff" is happening to people all the time. Not caring, or dismissing it as paranoia because statistically it is unlikely to happen to any specific individual is nothing less than self-centered.
Make a backup.
What good does that do? Even if you notice the intrusion straight away it can take a couple of hours to re-image a machine. The big money nowadays comes from maintaining botnets, the way you maintain a botnet is by hiding the fact the system is compromised for as long as possible, I know people who have had their machines compromised for months without them knowing about it - contributing to spam and exploiting more machines.
The biggest selling point of NT is the standard user, and its about time that it is used properly.
-- Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/ http://www.windowsresource.net/
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Amen, brother! Preach it.
"Bob" wrote in message

"Microsoft and paranoid types will tell you that disabling UAC is a bad idea, but I don't buy the argument. Serious security threats install themselves under the radar and behind the scenes. It shouldn't take user intervention to stop them, and in fact, I've never seen or heard of UAC actually stopping spyware or a virus from being installed, and many sources note that UAC can't stop everything. Turning off UAC will theoretically reduce the security level of your computer, but if you're running antivirus and anti-spyware software like a good PC citizen, the only thing you'll notice is blissful freedom from those annoying messages."
Christopher Null
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Null

"Paul Smith" wrote in message "Bob" wrote in message I don't have any games installed. In any event, I'm comfortable using AV, AS and firewall.
Fine, miss the point entirely.
Let me rephrase, your web browser has a vulnerability, your calculator has a vulnerability, your e-mail client has a vulnerability or any other application on the system *for example*. As you're running those as an administrator, your AV your firewall you name it can be turned off, as the malicious code is running as an administrator.
If those applications were running as standard user, they don't have the authority to turn the services off, nor go and make any system-wide changes.
-- Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/ http://www.windowsresource.net/
*Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*

"Bob" wrote in message

"Microsoft and paranoid types will tell you that disabling UAC is a bad idea, but I don't buy the argument. Serious security threats install themselves under the radar and behind the scenes. It shouldn't take user intervention to stop them, and in fact, I've never seen or heard of UAC actually stopping spyware or a virus from being installed, and many sources note that UAC can't stop everything. Turning off UAC will theoretically reduce the security level of your computer, but if you're running antivirus and anti-spyware software like a good PC citizen, the only thing you'll notice is blissful freedom from those annoying messages."
Christopher Null
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Null

Argument from authority (and not a very good one at that).
If an application only has standard user rights, it can't write to system locations despite whatever Mr Null (who I've never heard of) says about it.
A vulnerability for example in Firefox (IE runs even lower than a standard user), which is running as a standard user will do two things if a malicious piece of code tries to alter system locations 1) fail or 2) ask for elevation.
There's no secret stuff changing the system when UAC is on and in its default configuration. UAC is more than just an annoying message. That's what the malware writers don't want you to understand.
-- Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/ http://www.windowsresource.net/
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Bob wrote:

"Paul Smith" wrote in message "Bob" wrote in message I disagree. If you are running AV, AS (2 or more) and a firewall AND you have a working brain you don't need UAC.
That is utter nonsense. Why should applications have full access to the box?
Because it's MY box and I want to decide what has access to it. I don't want or need "big brother's" help. XP didn't need UAC and neither does Vista. You have access to the box. But software doesn't need to have full

access.
And let's see didn't we complain that XP got nailed with malware?
Apple and Ubuntu have a password prompt and a SUDO respectively. They too have big brother looking out for their users. So what's the difference?

So my security advice should come from a guy who started the web site Filmcritic.com?
Bob wrote:

"Microsoft and paranoid types will tell you that disabling UAC is a bad idea, but I don't buy the argument. Serious security threats install themselves under the radar and behind the scenes. It shouldn't take user intervention to stop them, and in fact, I've never seen or heard of UAC actually stopping spyware or a virus from being installed, and many sources note that UAC can't stop everything. Turning off UAC will theoretically reduce the security level of your computer, but if you're running antivirus and anti-spyware software like a good PC citizen, the only thing you'll notice is blissful freedom from those annoying messages."
Christopher Null
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Null

"Paul Smith" wrote in message "Bob" wrote in message I don't have any games installed. In any event, I'm comfortable using AV, AS and firewall.
Fine, miss the point entirely.
Let me rephrase, your web browser has a vulnerability, your calculator has a vulnerability, your e-mail client has a vulnerability or any other application on the system *for example*. As you're running those as an administrator, your AV your firewall you name it can be turned off, as the malicious code is running as an administrator.
If those applications were running as standard user, they don't have the authority to turn the services off, nor go and make any system-wide changes.
-- Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/ http://www.windowsresource.net/
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